It passed proof for nitro which at the time would have been a service pressure of about 9,000 psi. Marks, Arsenal & Inspector Marks, Manufacturers have a great day! of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most typical pieces of his Hits and Misses: Deciphering Belgian Proof Marks - Blogger Colard Louis - Counet Lonard We present shotguns with a wide variety of features, technical characteristics, and prices from the worlds best companies, such as Chiappo, Italy; Tar Ideal Concept LTD, Israel and the leader of Chinese gun-industry - China North Industries Corp. (NORINCO). typically do not have a caliber designation; symbols and codes are used The first cipher is the crossed branches surmounted by a crown, and with a cross or star in the three other angles. PDF BELGIAN PROOF MARKS - - Hunting.be British gunmakers of the 21st century - The Field I have pictures If you need them. i have old 12 bore gun with marking as -elg with crown above in oval shape, PV, CHOKE, 1KG 545, X WITH STAR ON IT, 12.65, these r sum of the markings, the condition is good, its our family gun, but i dont know it value or year of manufacture, if u can help. Sorry for my delay in responding: I've been OOT and off-line for two weeks. American gun manufacturers moved away from Damascus barrels and on to tubes made from fluid steel. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. firearms books bibliary. Biography: Henri & Nicolas Pieper - Forgotten Weapons The wood does not look ancient so I am guessing in the 1970s or so. Original British Martini-Henry Rifle Extractor Mk IV From $34.95 Free Domestic Shipping on orders $300+ Hassle Free 30 Day Return Period 100% Safe Secure Checkout Guaranteed Authentic to the Historical Period My grandfather was a hunter long back in time just after WW2 and I have his shotgun in memory of him. There are literally thousands of small individual makers, and often such . Berleur Guillaume Sorry! Some older foreign manufactured firearms, such as pistols from Spain and Italy, will list a location, rather than a manufacturer. These marks are customarily the cipher of the gunsmiths guild and the mark of the State or city. If I was asked for a guess for a dollar I would say mid 1930's. Fakes and fraudulentmakers' marksare not a recent invention--note what William Greener said in 1835 (seemy earlier post of April 20, 2014). Bernard Henri Eugne 10 Biggest American Gun Companies Share a Rich History - Wide Open Spaces Bernard Victor & Cie CLIMAS Tradename used by J. Stevens Arms Co. on guns. Navigation (GPS, altimetres, compasses, maps), Immediate shipping on a all products listed. Bookmark In some cases this cipher is also preceded by the figures 16, and followed by a capital B., also surmounted by a crown. LLH (and other Belgian makers) made the tubes used by most of the U.S. double gun makers 1920s-1940s, with Siemens-Martin or Krupp (by license) steel supplied by Cockerill. Please note! Chartier The Belgian gun industry in Liege produced flintlock muskets for their African colonies until the mid-1950s. Post request for quotation and get multiple offers from manufacturers, 155MM HE 107 Full Zone 8 Charge with Electronic Fuze, Large quantity of surplus guns and exotic guns, BA 312 Semi-Auto Magazine Tube Tactical Shotgun, BA 912 Bullpup Mag-Fed Semi-Auto (2 Different Mold), BA 912 Special Cerakote Bullpup Mag-Fed Semi-Auto Shotgun. Comblain Dieudonn Joseph In England, the second charter of the Gunmakers' Company granted in 1672 marked the beginning of the official proving of arms, but it did not apply to weapons made elsewhere in the Kingdom, provided they were not offered for sale in the London market. In addition to arsenal marks, you will find other marks or stampings. Bodson N. Nessonvaux is short drive outside of Liege. Technically the company is owned by Belgium firearms maker FN Herstal. This printed Buy Belgium Shotguns For Sale At Auction | Invaluable If not, consider it loaded and potentially dangerous. Hi, thanks for the info and knowledge you provided. This printed and hardbound book, written in English and French by Alain Daubresse, provide an extensive insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of the 20th century. A reader hasasked me to say something aboutBelgian proof marks. The second is the crossed branches, with the letters A.E. I can't tell if it was proved for nitro: those have a lion over the PV. We provide antique gun prices and pictures of each antique firearm we sell. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Beau, I need help finding out more about this pistol.. leg in a circle star over the k in 3 places and a crown over jj and the name j. Cueruy and NR under the grip. I have not been able to locate an authoritative resource Bernard Emile & Cie Lewis Lobdell Hepburn ran his own gunshop in Colton, a small village .Click for more info Seller: gbdeer Area Code: 315 $2,600.00 ATTRACTIVE WESLEY RICHARDS 6-GAUGE PERCUSSION SINGLE BARREL SHOTGUN GI#: 102214961 All 24 Shotguns made in Belgium, Belgian made Shotguns from manufacturers.name.include? On January 27, 1910, in Liege, a Justice of Peace heard a case of gunmaker's employee Joseph Bury vs. La Zurich insurance company. The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? It means it's a 12 gauge that has been proofed with black powder. Belgium double barrel 16 Gauge SN 13938 preBelgium double barrel 16 Gauge SN 13938 pre 1898 fine old Belgium imported exposed hammer shotgun, Leige proofed, floral engraved receiver showing some; FINE 19C. There's no indication of chamber length--but that didn't begin until 1892.The other marks I can't identify.So what can I tell you? The Belgian-made Auto-5 gets more accolades, but the Miroku A-5 is the better gun. It's complete. Shotguns - Belgium Double for sale - Guns International Today, Belgian firearms designer Francotte builds famed double barreled shotguns and fine rifles. Belgium - Shotguns Drue, yes, the absence of rifling means that this pin-fire was used for shot.Pin-fires represent an important stage in the development of firearms. Belgium Shotguns | Pricing Guides Dictionary & Values Birmingham did not establish its proof houses until 1813, and though another Act was passed in 1815 to strengthen the former, the laws were not stringent enough, and the Birmingham proof was not recognized as sound until much later, when the Act of 1855, still unsatisfactory, and the eventually satisfactory one of 1868, was passed. Pictures would help! The gun belonged to HH Nawab Ahsanullah. There is a lot of glare in the photo of the barrels' "water table" The left (right as viewed upside down, and likely the tighter choked) barrel seems to read "18.4 (bore size in mm) choke 18.2". Any maker's name on the rib between the barrels?Best,Gerry, 1902 a greener twobarrel it has hh on botten of barrel what do i have. Help to identify old belgium shotgun please | Shotgun Forum As I've said, I'm not an expert. Using a shotgun shell (a self-contained cartridge with multiple small, sphere-shaped projectiles) instead of a usual bullet is what makes a shotgun a separate kind of a gun. Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2. Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2 - HLEBOOKS.com this location now so you can return often. Scroll through our inventory of antique pistols and handguns from our cartridge pistols and revolvers category below. No maker's name at all. Variant of the one above, used for some month in 1894 and sometimes later on Not for ball, indicates that the barrel has choke. carefully bound by threads. Thank y'all for your help ahead of time! Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1 By Alain Daubresse This printed and hardbound book, written in English and French by Alain Daubresse, provide an extensive insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of the 20th century. reference books that display proof marks and their meanings. HI, John. Ateliers Saint Laurent, Bauwir Joseph Measuring the bore diameter and chamber How do I price this piece? After 1924 fractions of grams were no longer used 1892 - present 1K355.5 17 [Later note: Gerhard Wirnsberger has written. Clment Charles Philibert The "D.D. I have got a 19th century belgian double barrel pin fire shoutgun with walnut stock(116cm). Proof Marks or A Adaptive Tactical Shotguns American Tactical Shotguns B Baikal Shotguns Barrett Shotguns Benelli Shotguns Beretta Shotguns Blaser Shotguns Browning Shotguns C Century Shotguns Charles Daly Shotguns Chiappa Shotguns Smaller gauges progressively cost more, with 20-gauge guns generally bringing at least twice the price of a 12 gauge. Sixteen-gauge guns generally fall somewhere in between. weapon. It is unfortunate from the point of view of history that weapons were not marked with a date letter as is customary with silver hall-marks, but the proof-marks stamped upon arms give no indication of the period of proof. Anonymes listed in alphabetical order. Broqua & Scholberg Don't know about the Star P. And I don't ever evaluate guns. Your help is appreciated. Antique Shotguns - Percussion for sale - Guns International Example of inspectors mark, any letter can be used with a crown. insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of The idea behind such a test is to verify the strength of the barrel, breech and firing system of a firearm by deliberately firing an over-pressured cartridge. visiting our on-line listing of manufacturers identifying marks, You can also browse other antique pistols for sale or additional categories as diverse as Colts, Winchesters, and antique long guns. rifle,over a 12 ga. shotgun. Shooting Made in the USA: A List of where gun makers manufacture By Jim Harmer Updated on February 7, 2023 It's important to know where your firearms come from if you are a conscious consumer who wants to make sure your money is only going to places you support. Belgium vs. Japan: Who Made the Better Browning Auto-5? They are often found in combination with proof-marks, and still more frequently on unproved arms made in countries where no official proof was existent. Other makers include Lebeau Courally and Mahillon. Some sharp photos might help; send them to ([email protected]). Maximum service load for shotguns having undergone smokeless proof. JavaScript is disabled. examiner must rely on proof marks when trying to identify these ('Manufacturer') Home > Product Catalog Shotguns made in Belgium category Firearms/ Small arms 731 Rifles 237 Shotguns 359 Pistols 134 Blank/Signal/Rubberball pistols 1 Black powder/Muzzleloader 2 Ammunition 3 Ammunition Components/Reloading 20 I have a vintage double barrel that I have a few questions about. Subcategories This category has only the following subcategory. Mauser Serial Numbers DatabaseMAUSER PISTOLC-96 (BROOMHANDLE)DATES OF It has a gold trigger and serial number starts with an x. I'm very curious as to why there is an "FN" above the serial #. Rich engraved. BELGIAN PROOF MARKSPROOF MARKS: BELGIAN PROOF MARKS, . Markus, clearly your gun is from 1943, but look, you have used a 2011 old post. Bultot Jean We provide antique gun prices and pictures of each antique firearm we sell. Four barrel . )t/!Z $e9]DG=Ljr%@6) 8F&Kx[2l~WY7#|9&~L~G3jjV?~2SN?2&=qb'3d0W>l#G2;/|D)c~liS>2lVbD""L0M7;Q"gd)g"G{\3efBd. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. Serial Numbers. it says made in belgium on the side of the barrel yes but on the top of the barrell it says acier cokerill on 1 barrel on the top and on the other barrel on the top next to it it just says liege belgium and yes there is a stamp on the inside of the barrel next to all the other markings that says LLH what does that mean? date, serial number and property marks as well as various acceptance and It's very old but I'd like to know more about it. Volunteer arms co. on October 29, 2020: 16 gauge serial number is 90524xe what would it be worth and how old is it. Length of chamber over diameter of chamber. You may know how to do this: put the ramrod down the barrel and mark it with a pencil at the muzzle. A voluminous schedule of rules and scales of charge for the proof of various kinds of small arms is in existence, and the proof is the same at London and at Birmingham; though different proof marks are employed. I found a couple on this site and also nramuseum.com leading me to believe its a British or Belgian gun. to identify the manufacturer. Bernard Ernest 1891 - present 16 Barrel weight in grams of nitro proofed shotguns. In fact, that pattern was considered as adding to the beauty of a gun and therefore highly desireable. with this information in an attempt to clear up some wrong information Hello,I have a flintlock rifle that is stamped "spesco corporation made in Belgium" on the top of the smoothbore barrel. IMPORTANT NOTE! Bury Jules. Their cipher or mark was the letters G.P. United States Police prefers using shotguns because of their comparably simple usage and aiming for close and mid-range fighting. Purchased by Val Forgett of Navy Arms in 1978. Proof Any help would be appreciated. stream Ad Categories: Pre-1840. The 12.65 I take to mean 12 gauge with 2 1/2" chambers (70 would be the modern 2 3/4"). Pricing Guides & Dictionary of Makers Marks for Antiques & Collectibles. Their total production was around 180,000 guns. Quick Facts Those are about the only other possible sources of information, and probably won't narrow it down much more than what we know: second half of the 19th century, but before 1892.Best,GerryBest. List of firearm brands - Wikipedia These two, and sometimes the makers private mark, may be found on many old weapons. country requiring that weapons sold within the respective country, and If there is no Lion over PV, the gun was NOT proved for smokeless powder. Unmarked barrel with Belgian proof mark, action currently . Gun Indentification - German Hunting Guns Well the bore is noted in the rhombus as >>12<< and the constriction values are >>18.2/18.2<< & >>17.3/18.2<< so with those it has to be a 12 bore. Do check with a gunsmith before you shoot it! Thanks! they were made + or - 1900 to 1930's. is 1.220 kg (43.00 oz). Bauduin Charles Proof marks are the official stamps or ciphers showing that a barrel has been properly tested with the prescribed excess charges of powder and ball that allow a large factor of safety to the user. Applied to all guns made but not proofed in Belgium - sent to an other country proof facilities. Home | Login | Register. ]v8 >ZX 2Fu}) Charlier Ch. This will be an on going Hand Guns 5 Rifles-Shotguns 1 . I have two sets of wood handles and artillery holster with marks of 7 ; 44; 105C. These marks are the Belgian Lion rampant over the letters S.C.H. Do check with a gunsmith before you shoot it! Are also discussed the many markings found applied on the guns and their The only other markings I have seen are along the length of thr barrel \ \/ | . Greetings Easthampton,I have been researching an old antique pistol that has been in our family for generations.What leads me to your group was the Hits and Misses article posted in 2014; on Deciphering Belgian Proof Marks (my piece has the spelling Belgium). I bought an old shotgun from my uncle, he bought it in the late 40s early 50s. % gfk0W2|Z#C7xA5 2`f)Hj'[iZWMU=|J-T `)Mtex=]m$azBbk>$QPB gTb0nnPTbj\uD`.3;7 ;U}LuB+2aki!Ld1QNUwr$Oaj9,U1Oe~N2u]6;&?a'LOe3 NIIS/\4fFIGXT[,(rN]3"!2(4YBd^VUY:;jWCJ^f"X.2X:l\d>|D}#&Ofw`Rv|$6&)M The date stamps is not used on all guns, otherwise that is the most accurate. Counet Philippe One issue of this collection for the year 1910, which I found in the US Library of Congress, contains a curious case which throws some light on how some Belgian gun manufacturers actually operated. Hard to identify or value firearms - NRA Museums: Order this book online and pay it through This includes many fine Browning A5 shotguns and the Superposed shotgun. Double proof as prescribed by the French law of 1810. Last edited on 20 February 2023, at 21:10, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_firearm_brands&oldid=1140599647, Air defense equipment, artillery, munitions, explosives, ED devices, industrial machinery, Ammunition, Suppressors, Outdoor products, Clothing, Civilian, law enforcement, military, security, Suppressors, rails/handguards, accessories, ammunition, clothing. See Kennett's # 2 and # 9 above. The crowned R was for revolvers after semi-smokeless proof and 50 % excess pressure. Collard Henri - Roux Jacques [more like this] Belgian Flobert Style Warnant 8mm Parlor. Counet-Leboulle J. 1893 - 1924 1930 - present CH B RAYE 15 Designates 4th or nitro proof; the mark contains the name of the powder in abbreviated form ( Schultze, E.C.) Hits and Misses: Deciphering Belgian Proof Marks - Pinterest So the barrel strength would be just a bit less than "modern" barrels; but not the corrosion resistance of Winchester Nickel Steel or AISI 4140. determination. Some older foreign The fourth the crossed branches, with the letters S.E.E., and a cross in their angles. Needless to say, I bought the gunand it will never be for sale as long as I am alive. It's as useful in a duck blind as it is . Category:Firearm manufacturers of Belgium - Wikipedia Category:Firearm manufacturers of Belgium Help Belgium portal Aggregate of articles pertaining to firearms manufacturers in Belgium . JavaScript is disabled. Closset J.M. manufactured firearms, such as pistols from Spain and Italy, will list a The examiner must rely on proof marks when trying to identify these firearms. Can't help much w/o some photos (send to [email protected]). Each gunmaker is presented with the maximum Does it reach the touch hole? Behr Jean jacques Tel: 01707 709372; Long Beach, CA: Safari Press, 2000. These might cursive as well. A "Greener" double? I'm very excited and can't wait for some replies. On barrels and actions of smoothbore guns with the gauge size. Midway USA sells a CO2 kit to unload both flint and percussion guns.Best,Gerry, hello, what does a 'z' also indicate on a Begian pinfire revolver cylinder please. Barrels are not rifled- does this mean it must be a shotgun? To my knowledge, there isn't a book out that covers European proof marks: If someone knows about such a book, please add a comment with that information. Antique Shotguns & Belgian Shotguns Side by Side - Collectors Firearms Gun Markings - OldGuns.net Bernard Alphonse The slot for the pin had to be welded up and a firing pin installed.I dont know when pin-fire cartridges ceased being manufactured, but Id guess they were still available until the early twentieth century. Since it reads >>Made in Belgium<< on the side of the tubes it was made for export. No maker's name anywhere? Christophe & Montigny marks tell the country of origin of the weapon. Most shotguns have smoothbore barret to be able to use shells which are grouped by gauges (instead of rifles caliber) - they indicate the weight of the ammunition fired. Flintlock fowling pieces and rifles were made for the Northwest Indian trade until the early twentieth century; so, too, percussion long guns for sale in Africa. . In contrast to Walther, Mauser did not start over with serial numbers at the . As the old saying has it, "The buyer needs a thousand eyes; the seller, only one." Hello, I have two ELG 1136 Belgian Percussion Dueling pistols with a 6 inch barrel. Gun Proof Marks, Stamps and Date Codes - firearmsguide Their proof marks are two feathers, or curved branches, crossed with letters in the angles of the cross so formed. Since the U.S. has no proofing houses (as in England, France, Germany and . Closset Louis %PDF-1.3 The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. The Standard mark for French Government arms was a crown above an E., and this crown has a three looped top, with the orb or ball and cross as ornament, and is so distinguished from the cross-crested crown of some St. Etienne weapons. Beuret Frres 1860-1870. Classic Arms Importers and manufacturers of blackpowder guns and kits, located in Palmer, Massachusetts. New York: A. S. Barnes, 1961. BELGIAN MADE, 12 GAUGE, BOXLOCK EJECTOR, 32" BARRELS, CHOKES MODIFIED & FULL, 2-3/4", BROADWAY RIB, GOLD WASHED SINGLE SELECTIVE INERTIA TRIGGER, NON-AUTOMATIC SAFETY, PISTOL GRIP, .Click for more info Seller: Country Pursuits Area Code: 718 $3,895.00 ROYAL GUN, BELGIUM SXS 12GA, GI#: 102149842 The major countries which either did not have proof or whose marks were not recognized were the U.S. and Spain. This mark is found on guns that is not made in Belgium by countries that use proofs that is not recognized by the Belgian Proof House. Ithaca opened in 1883 and built a number of different boxlock-style side-by-sides, including the Crass . Always found in conjunction with the stamps above, which would indicate type of powder. Belgian Liege gunmakers After years of looking at and trying time, therefore assisting in dating the arm. All 31 Belgian gun makers, Belgium dealers and sellers and suppliers Home > Companies Gun & arms makers from Belgium country Czech Republic South Africa Israel Malaysia Netherlands Belgium Norway United Arab Emirates Finland Nigeria Ukraine Hungary Indonesia Lithuania Serbia Slovak Republic Croatia New Zealand Sweden Greece Japan Slovenia Belgian Arms cie I have my grand dads Belgian Browning A5 Sweet Sixteen. will normally provide the information needed to make a caliber in the A to C range of the alphabetical order. A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. I think it was made 1890 but not sure. Spesco was based in Atlanta, GA, and imported a variety of reproduction and modern guns in the 1960's and 70's.It would be a good idea to check that the rifle is unloaded. Very helpfull once again. Mauser was a late entry in 1888. Colleye Henri Joseph Burlet Thank y'all again! Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1 - HLEBOOKS.com Ordinance and Proof Houses were established by law in almost every Britte Frres Still, this company firmly has its roots in the good old U.S.A. John Moses Browning is a legend of firearms history. Mark, I'm unclear what the "leg in a circle" looks like; ditto the "star over the k". As for proof marks, the oval with E/LG/* inside makes it indeed Belgian. Gun Barrel Proof Marks. Ancion Jacques & Cie Other than the diameter stamp, I don't see a 70mm stamp. In 1899 alone, the U.S. firms of Hartley & Graham and Simmons Hardware bought 90,000 shotguns, rifles, and handguns from Liege gunmakers. In its small version its a acceptance mark on barrels that was exported in a unfinished state 1846-1893, In its small version its a black powder mark on small pistols and revolvers barrels 1866-1893, In its small version its a black powder mark on small revolvers cylinders 1866-1893. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Original Antique Gun Parts for Sale - International Military Antiques 1840-1860. Paypal, Order The 1KG 545 is the barrel weight in grams. "Arsenal" or "Inspector Marks". There is no doubt that this system contributed much to the good report in which properly proved arms were held, and laid the foundation of much export trade. 3 vols. Handguns, shotguns, machine guns, battle rifles Seekins Precision Glen Seekins Seekins Precision United States Civilian S&T Motiv S&T Holdings Co Ltd South Korea Military S&W Horace Smith and Daniel B. Wesson Smith & Wesson: United States Various: Savage Arthur Savage Savage Arms: United States SCCY SCCY Firearms: United States Seraphim Armoury . When Was My Gun Made? Firearm Dates by Serial Number - SkyAboveUs I'll restrict myself therefore tosaying something about gun making in Belgium and offering some proof marks. The IZh motorcycles and automobiles are manufactured by. Bettonville - Fontaine The fifth a crown, with three crossed spikes set over a capital E. Other French towns had their special marks, such as individual armorers and inspectors used their own unique stamps in some Price guide for BELGIAN FLOBERT SINGLE SHOT RIFLE: Circa Hi, your shotgun was made after 1924 due to the Perron-Liege proof marks. How Foreign Guns Invaded the U.S. - Bloomberg.com As mentioned, Damascus barrels were made from strips of iron and steel wrapped around a mandrel in "barber pole" fashion, and the spriral pattern can usually be seen clearly. Coleye M. N. It was mandatory post-1924. old belgian gun makers - Telecore Digital On barrels of breechloading shotguns after final black powder proof. The crude VIII on each barrel aren't proof marks but a means to ensure matching tubes for this set of barrels. Mark for optional superior provisional proof. 1860-1870. There's no brand name on it (I've been p and down it 100 times) it does say laminated barrel and that's it. I believe you'll find that the E in a diamond symbol is the mark used by the Timothy Eaton company of Toronto Canada.
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