The ARPA Zone/Open Membership Discussion Forums. R12 is simply too expensive for a 25+ year old A/C system. This kit comes complete with Expansion valve, o-ring kit, and 1ft. If ambient is 90 (today) and the output of the condensor is 110, that's pretty good isn't it? If the system was upgraded by a professional it should have an upgrade sticker. Its among the greenhouse gases and will keep adding the current problem of heat not leaving the earths atmosphere. Big . Generally, the new amount is 75-85% of the quantity advised by the manufacturer. and he synthesized R-134a in 1936, 5 years after R-12 was . Looks like a couple of things happening here1) 80's vintage Eurocars were not "meat lockers". Very interesting! You can spend long evenings reading about the differences between the two refrigerants. Whether R134a performs as well as R12 in any given a/c system depends upon system components and the amount of R134a used. When the sensor detects the refrigerant leak the sniffers lights glow and the sniffer makes a noise. This refers to BTU's (heat) moved per pound of refrigerant moved. Add to cart. The only difference I can imagine would be the recharge connection. But I don't want to waste your time. . R12 systems used mineral oil, but unfortunately mineral oil doesn't dissolve in R134a. You may need to adjust the valve in a bit to get desired superheat. I don't recall all the details, but starts off with the largest parallel flow condenser and improved fans. R-134a XV for R-134a use. With R-12, 30 is 28.4psi and 40 is 36.9psi, for a difference of 8.5psi. I don't think it has any air dams or seals, I'll check to make sure. Instead of using R12, its preferable to use R134a because it is very easy to find in the market, its sold at an affordable price, and is environmentally friendly. Is there a difference between a R134a expansion valve and an R12 TXV? The difference between the two is about 10,000 btu/h. -The amount of R-134a needed will typically be 80-90% of the R-12 charge. A/C receiver difference between R12 and R134a? Also, R134a cylinders are light-blue in color. A thermostatic expansion valve (TXV) (see Figure 1) is a refrigeration and air conditioning throttling device that controls the amount of refrigerant liquid injected into a system's evaporatorbased on the evaporator outlet temperature and pressurecalled the superheat. R-134a is widely believed to be the most acceptable R12 substitute. Besides, its technology has been tested and trusted. Therefore, its most suitable for both commercial and domestic environments. There is only a temperature switch on these cars as far as I recall, and it just switches on the aux fan. Large temperature difference between expansion valve inlet and outlet oReplace expansion valve Air . A Lot of the fins are bent, especially at the top. Put a relay on the compressor clutch to the aux fan (I like that idea - makes a lot of sense)How does that sound? However, the supply houses don't indicate a difference. Also, it can be used with all types of compressors. Catalog E-1, Thermostatic & Automatic Expansion Valves / Page 1 Table of Contents . R134a requires the use of synthetic oil! ambulance tailgate conversion The higher the ambient temperature the higher the high side pressure. We, the Rxmechanic team, have presented a well-detailed comparison of R134a vs. R12. Heres R12 vs. R134a pressure chart. Nice to use new gadgets! 10,000BTU conduction heating? Please enter a valid email address for yourself. Expansion Valves Catalog E-1, July 2012. An extra half ounce? This is because R134a. The cure is to use the newer R134a compressors is sealing washers that are different thickness. The money you will save by will pay for the R12. The butylcellusolve or the citrus solvent will dissolve the carcass in a few minutes. 2022 nba 2k22 starting a fashion label signing the designer, a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve, 2020 white paper of the church of pentecost, Chime Mobile Check Deposit Funds Availability, Why Does James Kill Donald In The Vanishing, nba 2k22 starting a fashion label signing the designer. B. The difference between R12 and r134a is the BTU carrying capability. R 134A is designed for the high demands of an automobile AC and cannot be used on refrigerators due to pressure differences. But I've read that these car's didn't do too well in the a/c stakes, so that might just be as good as it gets. This can be very very expensive. Your decision could be made based on economics, environmental concerns, or both. Interestingly, theres one oil type that works perfectly with both types of refrigerants. The general practice of charging the system with 15% less refrigerant adds to the thermal deficiency of R134a. It is mixed with the freon for the most part, and does accumulate in all components in small amounts. Answer: OK, I'll bite. The crossover point is approximately at 64F. I'm having the same concern. R12, on the other hand, has an ozone depletion potential of 1, implying that it can damage the ozone layer. Some compressor manufacturers or OEMs suggest PAG type oil for R134a. There are three different refrigerants officially sanctioned by the EPA for automotive usage: r-12, r-. I don't have the FSM matrix handy for that 123.123, but a 123.133 shows a test rpm of 2,000 - and vent temps between 54f & 66f at 91f to 95f ambient. 1) Warm Air From Vents. The name of the oil is Polyol Ester (POE). It does not "pool" to any degree in a large amount anywhere. R134a is called tetrafluoroethane (HFC). CONCLUSIONS The differences in the theoretical C.O.P.H calculated for R12 and R134a are consistent with values quoted in the literature. . difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. Refrigerators generally utilize R22, R32, or 410A-based coolants as their cooling agent. All fans must work at 100% of the OEM rating. Paul:It is never a waste of my time to chat with someone that understands the problem, and wants to fix it. Low refrigerating effect per pound: In comparison to other refrigerants, the refrigerating effect of R12 per pound is low. Or is there always room for improvement, the more the merrier. (You must log in or sign up to reply here. Thanks for the input. July 3, 2022July 3, 2022. That's a lot isn't it? At 40, it is 35psi, which is a difference of 8.9psi. The MB chart shows 360 psi with R12 in some conditions. A York oil capacity is listed as "6.5 to 9.6 ounces". However, R12 refrigerants are still used as fire retardants in aircraft and submarines. R134a compressors are substituted as new to retrofit the R12 system compressor part numbers with different height sealing washers. Any suggestions, or do you need to know the hi/lo readings? Skin contact: If the R134a (liquid) comes in contact with your skin, it could cause a burn. You can use this space to go into a little more detail about your company. This is the part that controls the system pressures. Spray it deep, and let it sit for a few minutes. Are r12 and r134 fittings different? At the moment, the ac is acting up - will work fine for about 15 minutes and then slowly the vent temperatures rise until the compressor switches off. a 50f delta across the condensor is good, but I suspect that is an idle reading. look at the difference! Boiling Point: R134a refrigerants boiling point is -26.3C (-15.34F). And, unfortunately a small high side pressure gauge on a short hose. The approval is very legal one, governed by the U.S. EPA. R12 is heavier than R134a and has smaller molecules. From memory, I put in at least 8 ounces of oil, probably around 10 ounces in there. Your average garage that works on a/c on the side probably would not have this. But as there's not a big difference, people say you can suffice with either. What effect would it have on performance, if any? After the initial charge the system is then tweeked : you determine the optimum amount of refrigerant to match your system by monitoring the a/c outlet vent temperature and the high side pressure as you add or remove refrigerant. If there is no pusher fan, and you have the room, put one in. How about evacing 1 pound of refrig from the system, and then putting 1 lb of pure R12 back in? The larger line at the expansion valve is the suction line. Thus, when the system is running, condensing the CO2 is not a problem. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. Gain access to our free AOP (Ask a Professional) Section to get real answers for your questions. In a comparison between R12 vs R134a vs R1234yf, R1234yf will pass as the best refrigerant. 2) Frost on the Vents. $21 . Rich Membership Chairman Using R134a in an R12 system will cause the oil not to move with the refrigerant, causing a system failure and probably won't even cool the system well, if at all. For R12, its mineral oil. The adjusted tension of this spring is the determining factor in the opening and closing of the expansion valve. Mark Baker R-401b is the mixture by weight of 61% R22, 11% R-152a and 28% of R-124. R-12 expansion valves can be re-used, but will not be as efficient as R-134a specific ones because of the slightly different pressure specs of R-12 vs. R-134a. Paul -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. I don't believe it is but I had a service guy tell me it needs to be done. You should keep in mind that recharging your air conditioner improperly could result in more serious damage. Hence, let us continue to fix it. This may be the source of your oil confusion. Poc temps desprs van decidir unir els dos webs sota el nom de Xarxa Catal, el conjunt de pgines que oferirien de franc sries doblades i/o subtitulades en catal. When I compare parts, 93 uses one part number and 94 has a different part number. R134a is called tetrafluoroethane (HFC). The original CFC expansion valve used for R12 needs to be replaced with an HFC one for 134a to feed the evaporator correctly. 3) A TXV optimized for 134a will be ok with R12. Recharge the compressor with a/c ester oil and a tracer dye. I'm going to check the condensor is way clean too. Please enter the name by which you would like to log-in and be known on this site. GWP is a measurement of Greenhouse Gases and their effect on Global Warming. Talk about what services you provide. . R134a has a smaller molecule than R12 so R134a will leak out sooner than R12. I bought a relay to put on it connected to the compressor clutch. . This drop can affect energy consumption since the plant will operate for a longer period or a larger plant will have to be installed. (On firewall where A/C lines go into cab.) According to the thermodynamic characteristics, it is close to the R12 freon, however, it is 10-15% worse in terms of cooling capacity and is more fluid. Consider using the newer valve, even with 134a stamped on the valve. The Wikipedia explanation for expansions valves cited in Frank's thread says that the gas inside the bulb in the metering valve is the same as the refrigerant in the system. In a car ac, using this type of freon 20 years ago was difficult. R-401b is the mixture by weight of 61% R22, 11% R-152a and 28% of R-124. The experimental values of C.O.P.H obtained with the R134a/ester charge were 20.2% don't know enough about the subject to explain the choices.However, a few days ago I called the dealer to see about an OEM TEV and they said something that made me feel a little bit better; the same part number superceded every application back to the '60s, and that they couldn't do that without engineering signing off on it.Still, I would feel a lot better if I could see something written officially that compared the flow characteristics and performance of r12 and 134a TEVs are concluded that they were interchangeable in automotive applications.If someone knows of such a document I would sleep much better!Walt Edited: Mon September 12, 2005 at 8:13 PM by wamcneil. The most common influences which effect the capability of R134a to perform well are the condenser, in some cases the the superheat setting of the expansion valve or the amount of R134a. To prevent refrigerant loss you should consider replacing your old hose lines with barrier type hose. Best for varieties of operating conditions: Its boiling point is -21.6 Celsius. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." Production of R12 ceased in 1996, although it can still be reclaimed, purified, and resold, and small cans of New Old Stock R12 are still widely available on eBay and Craigslist. This allows the refrigerant in the condenser to be void of oil particles. So if the TXV is OK, and the too much oil situation is not a big problem, then I wonder why the compressor is switching off after about 15 minutes of cooling? R-134A has a slightly lower pressure at evaporator temperatures (30-40 degrees), but R-134a also has a much higher pressure at condenser temperatures (120-150 degrees). They plug all the time. Blows pretty hard on full. It's not just the poor performance - the cooling just stops working after a while. Your old hoses of course will not fit. The catalytic converter is an essential component of your car's emission system that helps save the environment from harmful emissions. and he synthesized R-134a in 1936, 5 years after R-12 was . J.Harris said: Or if you want to do it like they do in Mexico you can use propane, it's an excellent refrigerant but highly flammable. Even with proper fan operation, missing seals & air dams can effect condensor effeciency. Above this temperature, the saturation pressure of R134a is higher than that of R12; below, it is lower. The current expansion valve is FF - 1/4 - C. Is it neccesary to replace this valve? Stopleak is also risky. Existing technology: R134a has been in use in the refrigeration industry for very many years, and theres so much information about the safe use of the product. Even though their common major function is to cool the system, they have many differences. It runs between the condenser outlet, receiver/drier unit and expansion valve at the firewall. . Though - the valve for a 1991 says R12 on it, and for a 1994, it says R-134a. In large application systems, the vapor density of this refrigerant is usually high. The P H and T cond,sat of the HR12 at a T oa of 40 C were higher than that of the R134a, resulting in a higher P e than that for the R134a. El maig de 2016, un grup damics van crear un lloc web deOne Piece amb lobjectiu doferir la srie doblada en catal de forma gratuta i crear una comunitat que inclogus informaci, notcies i ms. Not osmosis, but you know what I mean). As R134A refrigerant has different operating characteristics and pressures this valve is not necesssry. I have a laser temp reader, and it says the temps going into the condensor are up to 160F - coming out it is always around 110 or so. In most cases, the systems used have varied components, designs, and service ports. There are significant differences between R12, R134a, and R513A, which must be considered when handling, processing, applying, or retrofitting with these refrigerants. The AC usually does not work at all. R134a Refrigerant Recharge Kit with BPV31 Bullet Piercing Valve and R134a Quick Coupler, R134a/R-12/R-22 Freon Refrigerant Hose Can Tap Kit for A/C System - Easy to use. Some say that a chemical reaction can harm the A/C very badly as R134a reacts with mineral oil in some way. The evap is hard to get at. Inhalation of vapor: Inhaling a large amount of R134a vapor can lead to drowsiness, temporary nervous system depression, and lethargy. Any advice appreciated. You do not want to exceed the systems high side recommendations. Miscibility with oil: R12 can be mixed with the compressor oil no matter the operating condition. The system has been previously converted to R-134a. Anyone know what happens when an R12 expansion valve is used in a system charged with R134A? The analysis focuses on Coefficient of Performance for . Replacement expansion valve for R134a or R12 A/C refrigerants, with O-ring connections. It would make a big difference at idle ,in traffic!! R134a and R12 are both refrigerants used in vehicle air conditioning systems. Nevertheless, if your application is configured only for R12, then you can use it or consider replacing the applications engine. What was the ambient when you took that reading?Jumpering the aux fan is a common thing here in the desert. . They can be mounted quite easy,and there is a mounting kit that helps to hang it. R134a has the chemical formula CF3CH2F and is known as tetrafluoroethane.